CREATIVE CONVERSATIONS 130: CHARLIE PITTMAN ON LOVE, LIMBO AND STORYTELLING
Interview by Adeline Chai.
After debuting his EP, nothing lasts forever last year, Charlie Pittman makes a triumphant return to the music scene with okay. again?, a record detailing the ins and outs of romantic relationships and existential crises. A year following our chat at BIGSOUND, we caught up with Charlie on all things touring, storytelling, and beige flags.
FMM: I can’t believe it’s been a year since we chatted! With your previous EP, you emphasised a lot on continuity and having a story threaded through all the songs. With this upcoming ep, okay. again?, what's the story you're hoping to tell this time?
Charlie: Yeah, I mean I think this one's even more story led! It's six songs that are written and released all in chronological order. It starts at the end of one relationship, then goes through being single, going back into another relationship, and being back in that limbo phase. It’s basically a year in my life and how I've navigated romantic relationships. That's the main story. I think the last EP was very much talking about struggling to come to terms with growing from adolescence to adulthood and all the kind of challenges that come with that, but I think with okay. again?, it's more just this one-year span. It’s a lot more romantic relationship based and also self-reflection based as well.
FMM: I love that. I think it’s amazing that even though you have so many songs on romantic relationships on the EP, the comedown is very much about this existential dread that hangs over you in your mid-twenties.
Charlie: Yeah, massively. I think hopefully it's something that people can relate to, that kind of bedrock feeling as well of like, “Oh my God, some days I have so much purpose and motivation and some days I can't get up in the morning.” And that’s, you know, driven by romantic relationships, but also driven by career and the idea of purpose. ‘What am I on this earth to do?’ kind of thing.
At the time I wrote it, I was in a bit of a low place, but I think it's that classic thing of fluctuating so massively between feeling like that and then maybe the next day I'll be surrounded by my friends, and I'll be like, “Oh my God. I love my life.”
FMM: Which is very real because sometimes all you need is a coffee and your friends to be like, “Girl, it is going to be okay!”
Charlie: *laughs* Facts. Absolutely.
FMM: Visuals wise as well, you've got a few videos that have already been released, and one coming out soon with how I feel?. I know previously you studied to be an actor and that comes through so naturally in your work, but I think something so fun about music videos as well is you can tell if the musician is a bit of a theatre kid at heart and I feel like you are one.
Charlie: Oh, big time. I definitely try to hide it. When I moved to Sydney, I was like, “Yeah, I'm just a serious musician,” but it’s the best in reality. A lot of people, especially in America, that you see now who are doing really well, they were theater kids. I think it just gives you that opportunity to be vulnerable in your videos and not feel self-conscious.
FMM: how I feel? is genuinely my favourite song of yours so far.
Charlie: Oh, thank you!
FMM: I'm very excited for the video. I love that little guitar break towards the end of the song. I was wondering if you had a personal favourite for this EP?
Charlie: I think it probably is between how I feel? and maybe casual. I get a lot of people, a lot of musician friends coming to me and say, “Oh, I really love casual.” I feel like that's a bit of a dark horse, but I think maybe how I feel? does feel like the one that hits the hardest music video wise as well.
Jack and I were talking about it the other day and he said this is his best work. It's something very special to him. But also, we worked on it with Jordan Blanch as well and he’s an amazing director. We shot it on film, so we couldn't see what was happening until we got the first edit. So, it was one of those things where we had to have a lot of trust in each other, but we’re such an amazing team. I think how I feel?, I love the dynamics of it. I love how it starts off in such a small, kind of horrible moment and then it unleashes into this huge thing and then strips right back again to the end of EP.
It's weird because how I feel? nearly didn't make the EP. It was between that and another song. I was like, “Oh, okay, let's try to put this on it.” But it's interesting how that happens.
FMM: It’s also so interesting with you obviously writing in all these different places and I think about how much a physical landscape -- you know, America or the UK or Australia -- could potentially change so much about what you're writing or how you're writing. Does the physical location aspect change much of the writing process for you?
Charlie: I think that's a really interesting question. The two songs I wrote in Sydney were the two songs that are the most self-reflective and vulnerable. I think they're probably the most real songs; casual and the comedown. They were the ones where it's like, “You’re not in this exciting place. You're not where the stakes are raised.” I was in my bedroom when I wrote those songs. It was just one of those things where I felt, “Oh yeah. I'm feeling really vulnerable right now.” Then think later and how i feel?, probably the most dramatic songs, I wrote when I was furthest from Australia, furthest from home. So, I think, yeah, a foreign place might bring out those more dramatic songs.
FMM: That’s something I love about your music -- it keeps going back to you being really vulnerable when you're writing. I think also for a lot of people, sometimes the most struggle you find is being at home and being in those in-between moments of life where nothing's quite really happening.
Charlie: A hundred percent. I think especially as an artist as well, it's not like you have your structured nine to five situation. It really is just like, you know, some days you're so busy and some days you're not as busy. There’s having that routine and then not having that routine. It definitely affects me for sure. So yeah, it’s interesting how those songs came about.
FMM: Speaking of routines and schedules, you're going on tour soon, both in Australia and in the UK. Do you do anything to prepare for touring? I imagine it's quite hectic in every way.
Charlie: Yeah, it's hectic and the only thing we can do is in terms of prep is just rehearsing a lot, looking at the set, and building that out in a way in which it's gonna be interesting enough for the audience, but I think that's all we can do really. It’s hectic because we fly in and fly out of cities, and in the UK we're driving around the country, but it's the most fun part of the job for sure. It's the stuff I look forward to and it's the reason I write these songs, so I can be in the same room as the people that are connecting with them. I'm really excited. We've got four dates in Australia, and then I've got four dates in the UK, come straight back, and the day I come back, we play SXSW It’s gonna be a hectic couple of months, but I can't wait!
FMM: I’m excited for you! So, I have a bit of a fun question for you. In the comedown, you mentioned that all your flags are kind of beige. What's a beige flag that you think isn't talked about enough?
Charlie: *laughs*
FMM: It doesn't have to be your beige flag; it could be a beige flag.
Charlie: All I can think of is my flags. *laughs* My beige flag is seeing a text come in, thinking, “I need to reply to that,” but I don't want to reply straight away so I end up forgetting about it for three weeks and then I’ll be like, “Oh my God, I'm the worst person ever.” That's my beige flag. Maybe that's a red flag, but that feels like relatable. I think.
FMM: You know what? I think you've replied in your head, that counts. That counts for something.
Charlie: Exactly! *laughs*
FMM: And there you go. Okay, so we're going to do a speed round of, I'm going to pick my favourite lyric from three different songs and you can tell us as little or as much as you want about it. So on mouth on my sleeve, which I love, “My mouth’s on my sleeve, my heart's in my mouth.” Love that line.
Charlie: I went into that session with that lyric and a few other lyrics like “I can't be subtle if I try to be.” I just think, I like to try and subvert lyrics and phrases that are common to everyday use and see if I can put them in an interesting way. I'm someone who obviously wears my heart on my sleeve, but also the idea of having a mouth on your sleeve was just saying, “Everything you see from me, I'm going to be blurting out anyway.” You don't have to worry about me being introverted or hiding how I feel about something, it’s always going to be on the tip of my tongue. With “My heart’s in my mouth,” that was just me being anxious about the relationship or being vulnerable.
FMM: I love that. On the comedown – “in slo-mo, I went to blink, but I missed it.”
Charlie: I think it’s the idea that, life goes so quickly and things can happen so quickly. It’s about being terrified of not being present in the moment, and you blink -- even now I'm blinking and I'm like, “Oh my God. It’s September. When did that happen?” It’s about trying to take account for what's happening in your life and being present in the moment because yeah, you're gonna blink and you'll be dead.
FMM: I love that line. It's such a good line.
Charlie: Thank you!
FMM: Finally, we have “Running from the fire, but carrying the lighter safe in your purse” from how i feel?.
Charlie: That’s an interesting one because we had a different lyric when I wrote the song in Nashville with Val, and I can't remember what the lyric was. It was just more filler for sure. It wasn't super thought through but with this I wanted to paint this picture of someone putting a bomb somewhere and then self-destructing it, walking away from the scene of the crime. I wanted to paint a picture of that relationship.
FMM: My last question is that some people haven't heard the entire EP yet. What's one song that you're excited for your fans to hear?
Charlie: I think how I feel? obviously and casual have their moments, but a lot of musicians do come to me with mouth on my sleeve because it is the most different song to the rest of the EP. So, I'm interested to see how it reads with my general audience as well because it is super different to anything else I have put out. It is probably the most unique song out of the six songs, but we'll see how people go with it.
FMM: Amazing. I'm so very excited for you, just for the EP to come out and for all your live shows.
Charlie: Thank you so much!